Wednesday, October 30, 2013

A COMPROMISED CONCLAVE?

Mr Edward Snowden will most likely go down in history as one of the most courageous whistle blowers of all time for his revelations about the extent of spying being done against virtually the whole world.  He has provided us with a birds eye view of the mendacity, indeed malignancy of the United States government.

It is now revealed that the NSA was tapping the phones and communications of the entire Vatican establishment, including Pope Benedict and Pope Francis before, during and after the Conclave.  Is such a thing possible?  Here is one of many reports:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_10_30/Nothing-is-sacred-to-US-NSA-snoops-on-Pope-7540/

While it is true that the Cardinals agreed that no cell phones would be allowed in Conclave during the actual discussions and proceedings there is no iron-clad guarantee that the things that were discussed before the Conclave, and after the Conclave stayed in the Sistine chapel, and that very fact could have serious repercussions.  Apparently not even the Saint Marta Guesthouse escaped the big brotherish ears of the spying agency.  Cardinal Bergoglio's phone calls were eavesdropped on, as were numerous others.  Benedict himself was monitored for a number of years.

http://www.ibtimes.com/nsa-allegedly-spied-vatican-including-pope-benedict-xvi-cardinal-jorge-mario-bergoglio-1447634

In the International Business Times report linked above the reporter states:

"The NSA allegedly eavesdropped on cardinals before the conclave in March 2013 to elect the new Pope, including calls between them and Cardinal Bergoglio, who became Pope Francis, succeeding Benedict."

That being the case, and given what we now know about the NSA's nefarious activities, it is legitimate to ask the $64,000 Question "Was the Conclave compromised?"  The fact that the agency is run by the amoral General Keith Alexander, perjurer, and defended by James Clapper, perjurer,  should give us sufficient cause for concern.  The government is of course denying the story which, given their aptitude for lying not only to the public but to Congress, is not altogether reassuring.

Needless to say the official Vatican spokesman sees nothing.  "In any case, we have no concerns about the matter," a Vatican spokesman told IBTimes UK.  The Vatican spokesman is none other than that Jay Carney of the Vatican, Father Lombardi.  But if Rome is not concerned about this they sure as hell should be.  Already it has been credibly suggested that the NSA is using some of its scooped-up info for a discreet version of blackmail.  The agency has been monitoring the phone calls of Senators and Congressmen and there are those who surmise that some of the juicy bits of information they have picked up are being used to "convince" wavering legislators that they should not try to cut back on the activities of this gigantic, super secret, unaccountable Orwellian department.

It is damaging enough that they were eavesdropping on the Cardinals before and after the papal vote; it would be shocking if somehow they were privy to what was going on during the Conclave.  Despite the safety features that were put in place it is hard to say with certainty that the ears of the NSA were not listening in some way.

Person of Interest?

In another report, from Al-Jazeera we read:  
 
Bergoglio "had been a person of interest to the American secret services since 2005, according to Wikileaks”, it said.

The bugged conversations were divided into four categories: "leadership intentions", "threats to financial systems", "foreign policy objectives" and "human rights”, it claimed.

Why the American Secret Service considered Cardinal Bergoglio a person of interest for the past eight years is an interesting question although the Secret Service like all other US agencies is widely believed to have been corrupted, so it remains unclear as to how one should assess this piece of information or what it was about the activities of the Cardinal that prompted their extreme interest.  Still it is curious to say the very least.


Other sources are suggesting that this latest example of US spying has broken the Vatican's long-established secrecy when it comes to papal elections.  The Eponymous Flower site has a translation of a German report on the matter.

If that is so the Vatican might wish to emulate the Russians who are now reverting to type-written and hand-delivered important communications.

But if the Conclave was compromised in some way (and even if it wasn't we do know that the NSA has been listening to electronic communications of high Churchmen in Rome and probably everywhere else) then this opens up a whole new avenue of inquiry. Especially in view of the fact that the United States shares the information it illegally obtains with its partner, Israel.

7 comments:

Not surprised in the least said...

Last sentence. Dead accurate, spot on, bulls eye hit.

Anonymous said...

Israel gets much of this information first, before the NSA, due to the fact that they own the companies that provide and service much of the spying equipment and technologies.

Even more frightening, a rumour mentioned by Gerry Matatics (sedevacantist, I don't recommend him, but still..) said that there was an stop of financial transactions between the Vatican and everyone else, until Pope Benedict Abdicated, at which time the problem mysteriously cleared up.

Now who is so deeply involved in banking that they could engineer something like that?

I can't think of anybody either, so it must not be true. Besides, it would have been on the news, and our media is certainly free from any influence of any groups.

John said...

OK, I think we're getting a little TOO conspiracy-theory, Big Brother paranoid here.
We all have known for a good long time that the US government has been monitoring electronic and other communications. We also know that ..so have most of the major corporations of the world!
..and the sky still looks blue on a sunny day!


I can understand well why the Vatican isn't terribly concerned about this: There's nothing here.

Let's say that someone learned about various discussions that occurred during the conclave. OK. So what? Conclaves elect popes, they don't hatch plots to attempt taking over the world.

If the conclave was compromised, the only impact we can be concerned about would be: If some of the cardinals voted for Card Bergoglio not by virtue of the Holy Spirit's guidance, but for some worldly reason.

If nobody can prove that, I'd say we've got a need to relax a tiny bit and take a deeeeeep breath.
We're not going to be taken over by savage wild men merely because Pope Francis does something.

Anonymous said...

The Vatican is a state. Why would they be immune from spying in general? However If the spying didn't involve the conclave, and the conclave wasn't already loaded with operatives of every evil sort, I wouldn't have given this article a second glance.

Even Russia doesn't care much about the Vatican these days. Only one group tries to destroy Christianity while keeping their tentacles on the historic riches and cash coffers of the Vatican. Only one group, has a grip on world governments and is the founding root of anti-Catholicism and it ain't the muslems.

I just find this worldwide spying business more than a little intriguing. Thank you, Mr. Snowden. Thank you.

Aged parent said...

John:

Many thanks for your comment.

I don't believe anyone here is engaging in conspiracy theories, as you put it. I believe they are more concerned with the fact that extremely sensitive materials are finding their way into some rather unsavory hands. History tells us plainly that what happens in the Church affects the whole world. That the US government is run by International Finance for International Finance can only be denied by the most naive among us.

The other telling point is that the NSA apparently felt they had to keep an eye on Bergoglio. What that means I haven't the slightest idea. But I find that report most curious.

But whether this is a tempest in a teapot or not I believe common sense demands that we treat the story not with flippancy but with prudence.

MSchaut said...

Declassified CIA documents prove that bugging and even worse has been occurring at the Vatican for far longer. Even with all the evidence now available, people still love to shut down the truth with the preposterous statement 'conspiracy theory' when, in fact, by the govt's own admission they do an incredible number of hideous things hidden from public view. There is a riveting interview about this very topic- CIA and the Vatican- here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywuMn6O0BkU and hopefully a few people will finally decide that the truth is far more important to their salvation than their media-manipulated opinions.

Anonymous said...

@ John
The sky rarely looks blue now on a sunny day. The planes which leave their (chem)trails take care of that.

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